Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

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Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

Postby David Pascoe » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:46 pm

As I mentioned in the news item (The Warm Room Flush: what you wished you always knew), this paper from Australian Sciences is a really good read. A couple of points I liked:

IPL is not the answer to all your flushing problems.
Other important steps involve reducing skin cell activity by limiting sun exposure and to attempt flush reduction methods to change the natural bias of your flush zone towards blood vessel and nerve regression


Trying to avoid getting cold in between warm rooms so that you don't build up neuropeptides. This might not be possible in cold climates, but the idea is quite interesting and not something I have heard talked about much.
By ensuring your environmental temperature is biased towards warm, then your flush zones will be biased towards neuropeptide depletion rather than neuropeptide build up. I also believe that it is not the actual temperature that is important but more of a question of time. The longer you stay in a heat conservation phase (your flush zone is cold) then the longer the neuropeptide build up continues.


Your thoughts ?
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Re: Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

Postby Artist » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:46 pm

WOW David this is an amazing read! I posted some excerpts and commented here and there, but I just think everyone should read this whole thing. VERY eye-opening. Please read!!! (yahoo)

The Warm Room Flush (PDF).


I'm just going through it now. This reminds me of a camping trip one year. We went camping and it was only around 60-65 degrees most of the time. During the whole trip my skin looked amazing. My vessels were completely constricted at all times. On the way home, we went into a warm restaurant and I ate. I had the biggest "warm room" flush ever. It was very sudden, and awful. Now I realize that, while my skin was cool, dilating chemicals were not being used - so they built up. So, after such a long time building up, there was an abundant amount to be released. I think this also helps explain why many of us do worse in the winter going from warm to cold rooms.. Thanks for finding this.

Here is a little snippet:
"In cooler environments, chemicals the body uses to dilate blood vessels are no longer getting released in significance. If the person is in a cool environment for a long period of time, then these dilating chemicals such as neuropeptides, begin to build up."

I never realized you can actually reverse anything with rosacea (except with IPL): "flush reduction methods over the long term that will allow you to reverse the excessive skin infrastructure and sensitization."

"If you reduce the over activity of the skin, you reduce the infrastructure required to maintain it. Less nutrients will be needed for supply, so less blood vessels are needed to get them there. Just as the body has a system to increase blood vessels and nerves in your skin to correlate with their activity, the body also has a system to reduce blood vessels and nerves in your skin when they are less active. The body uses growth factor regulation as one method of achieving this balance. This is why reducing flushing and skin irritation is so important."

The author actually has rosacea: "Putting some of the rosacea neuropeptide research I learned into practice, the coming winter I did an experiment to try to continually release neuropeptides thereby not enabling a build up of these chemicals by the nerves in my skin. After all, what is the facial flush? It’s not caused by a gentle release of inflammatory chemicals produced by the body, but caused by a massive release of these chemicals!

In effect I was creating a summer-like environment by using heaters to prevent my face and body from getting cool (without getting too hot). I got through the winter and saw further improvement in erythema and flushing.

I continued the experiment in the summer, but this time the cool environment was inside due to air conditioning or insulation. The warm room was now outdoor exposure to hot weather. I again tried to continually release neuropeptides throughout the day. I did use air conditioning sparingly during the summer only to reduce very warm environments like hot cars. But did not focus cool air directly on my face (flush zones) and did not get cool. Again I noticed a great reduction in overall flushing and my facial redness was further improved. Over time I noticed a greater tolerance to warm environments

There does seem to be a correlation between cooler environments and rosacea. In tropical southern China there is little rosacea found, but as you travel north towards areas that experience cold winters, rosacea is very common.

Over the previous 18 months I had experienced significant continual improvement in erythema and flushing."

Perhaps this also explains why I do so well in tropical environments.

I think a lot of us try and do this: "Many with rosacea even try to remain in cool environments for long periods in an attempt to reduce facial flushes from occurring. However, this is counter productive because it can result in significant inflammatory neuropeptide storage. When the person eventually enters a warm environment they have a build up of neuropeptides ready for release. In this situation a large flush will be difficult to prevent."

Interesting!!!!

"If the flush zones of your face (cheeks, etc) are cool to the touch, then it is very likely that the availability of inflammatory chemicals such as neuropeptides are building up. Your flush zones don’t have to be red hot for these chemicals to be released. If you want to continually release neuropeptides gradually, then you want to have neutral to slightly warm skin (not hot and not cold).

By ensuring your environmental temperature is biased towards warm, then your flush zones will be biased towards neuropeptide depletion rather than neuropeptide build up. I also believe that it is not the actual temperature that is important but more of a question of time. The longer you stay in a heat conservation phase (your flush zone is cold) then the longer the neuropeptide build up continues.

If you continually experience flushed skin in warm environments, and you just get hotter during flushes, then you need to reduce the excessive infrastructure in your skin before you can attempt to modulate your environmental temperature and avoid neuropeptide build up. First try IPL to reduce some of the extra blood vessels in your skin."

Some more tidbits: "From a biological view, the sudden end to an intense flush somewhat resembles the neuropeptide depletion induced by capsaicin (the active chemical found in red peppers)."

Does Capsaicin help rosacea? I would have never dreamed of trying a "hot pepper" extract on my skin, but is it irritating topically?

"Australian Sciences has conducted extensive research into the normalization of inflammatory skin cells with natural compounds such as silymarin, egcg, vitamin B12 and many others. Independent research has also showed these compounds to be effective for other inflammatory skin disorders such as atopic dermatitis and psoriasis...."

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Re: Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

Postby Quiller » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:03 am

I like the neuropeptide buildup idea because it's original, and testable. It looks like one of the neuropeptides is Substance P, which always interested me because it sounds so mysterious. Here's a nifty illustration of how it interacts with NO:

Image

Here's an interesting tidbit from the Wikipedia neuropeptide article, considering that diabetes is often associated with rosacea:

This treatment reduced the development of diabetes in these mice by 80%, suggesting a link between neuropeptides and the development of diabetes.

Link
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Re: Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

Postby Aurelia » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:07 am

Quiller wrote:... considering that diabetes is often associated with rosacea


Steve,

If this is a statistically significant association, can you provide a citation or some stats, please?

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Re: Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

Postby Quiller » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:41 pm

Aurelia wrote:Steve,

If this is a statistically significant association, can you provide a citation or some stats, please?


Unfortunately I can't, it's one of those things I came across at some point. I remember wondering if that's why Dr. N's other specialty is diabetes. It could also be something I misinterpreted, but I think I've come across it more than once.

How about those neuropeptides, eh? Pretty interesting! Did you know they can build up and then go off like a ticking time bomb? Me neither!
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Re: Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

Postby Artist » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:22 am

I know! It's a major factor I wish I would have known years ago. i knew that going from a cold to hot room would sometimes cause a big flush, but I never knew the mechanism behind it. And, I never knew I could curb and reverse it so that I would be more tolerant to those extremes. I've always thought keeping my skin slightly cool as much as I could was best. Not so! Keeping my skin a normal temperature as much as I can is best. When I try and keep it cool, I just allow the neuropeptides to build up and more infrastructure to accumulate. Doh!!

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Re: Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

Postby redbreanna » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:05 am

Very interesting. I hate going from a pleasant climate into a hot and stuffy room, because I KNOW that my face will pay the price... when all that is needed is a thermostat adjustment or an open window! What is wrong with these people who keep public places so warm? Don't they know it breeds bacteria? (snob)

Unfortunately, I seem to do just as bad when it's constantly hot (in the summer here).
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Re: Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

Postby David Pascoe » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:12 am

Quiller wrote:How about those neuropeptides, eh? Pretty interesting! Did you know they can build up and then go off like a ticking time bomb? Me neither!


It is certainly an interesting thought that is worth exploring further to see if we can't understand how much this might help. The author did say it wasn't the cure, but did help. It is probably too hard for all to follow this sort of temperature regulation regime, but if it does help it is worth exploring and understanding it fully.
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Re: Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

Postby melissaw » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:41 am

This is probably a silly question but what about people who can stay flushed for days? Doesn't the dilating chemical (neuropeptides) get depleted and shouldn't the flush die out sooner?

I remember when I was first diagnosed I was fortunate enough to get to speak with Dr. Peter Crouch and he warned me not to sleep in too cool a room as that may require me to keep in cooler and cooler temps and harder to tolerate the warm room temps. I'm not sure he knew the mechanism behind this at the time but he was right!

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Re: Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

Postby AustralianSciences » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:19 am

Hi Melissa,

Regarding your question about those who stay flushed for long periods.
The booklet does advise those in this situation to reduce their excessive heat regulation infrastructure (through IPL) before attempting some of the recommendations in the booklet.
I can explain the reason for this a little further for you.
In this situation, the person would obviously has an excessive heat regulation infrastructure (more nerves and blood vessels).
This extra skin infrastructure is also involved in the generation of neuropeptides and inflammatory chemicals.
So the flush won't die out faster, in fact it will last longer because more of these chemicals are being produced and released.
If you have less of this heat regulation infrastructure in your skin, you will produce less of these inflammatory chemicals.

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Colin Dahl
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