Warm Room Flush: PDF released from Australian Sciences

[stringer1989]

Colin, thank you very much for your reply, it is very helpful.

I have eliminated most other factors that can be bad for rosacea ( sun, foods,heavy exercise, mental side of things through propranolol etc) so the only factor of concern is really only temperature and temperature related flushing and symptoms.

I am having difficulty determining whether I have too much infrastructure at the moment .
I have already had 5 IPL treatments with the Lumenis one machine and i wouldn’t say that ive noticed too much improvement in my rosacea. The benefits from IPL tended to be only short term ones.
You mention an indication of too much infrastructure is permanent redness. When I am normal (ie not hot and not cold) i have some permanent redness, but I have to be pretty close to the mirror to notice this redness, a few meters away from the mirror I cannot really see any visible redness. Would you say that this is not too much infrastructure or is it too difficult to say?
The reason i used to flush every day was because i was constantly putting cold water on my face and therefore during the day my face would be REALLY cold to touch and i would then flush in the latter hours of the evening, so i don’t know whether my flushing was caused by having way to much excessive infrastructure or just by the by the fact i was keeping my face way too cold during the day and i this would result in an intense flush even if i had less infrastructure.

Sometimes if i get really hot, i find that my nose and face are really hot, but it is not very red/flushed only slightly pinkish. Do you know what is happening here? Like is more blood vessels and nerves being developed and thus is it progressing my rosacea ? or should i not be worried about this?

And lastly this is related to the question above, but i was wondering whether if you are constantly a bit hot and slightly red/pink in the face 24 hours a day, if this will help to reverse your rosaacea, compared to being cold during the day and then having an hour or two of intense red flushes later in the day??

Sorry to ask so many questions, it is just my rosacea has left me very confused and i have a lot of questions.

P.s. does anyone here have an opinion on metrogel .75%??? do ppl find it helpful for rosacea or not??

Thanks heaps and best wishes

[hopeful77]

Hi Colin

I was just wondering if you could briefly comment on a question I posted before, but probably got missed:

When I attempt to wash my face, just with some soap and water, and after just somewhat of a gentle rub my cheeks become red (but no flush happens) and this redness takes some time to calm down. From a rosacea point of view , what is wrong with the skin? Does this make rosacea worse? What would you recommend when it comes to cleansing the skin?

Hopeful

[Artist]

What kind of soap do you use? Soap is too harsh for rosacea because it is very alkaline. The skin is naturally slightly acidic, and if you use alkaline soap on your sensitive facial skin, it has to work hard to get back to it's normally slightly acidic environment. So, the alkaline soap stresses it for a while and also strips and dries the skin. You might like to try a non-soap cleanser like cetaphil or Toleraine Dermo Cleanser, which are made for sensitive skin. They are not alkaline and will not stress, dry, and strip the skin the way soap does.

Cheers!

Artist

[AustralianSciences]

Dear Stringer,

I am having difficulty determining whether I have too much infrastructure at the moment .
I have already had 5 IPL treatments with the Lumenis one machine and i wouldn’t say that ive noticed too much improvement in my rosacea. The benefits from IPL tended to be only short term ones.
You mention an indication of too much infrastructure is permanent redness. When I am normal (ie not hot and not cold) i have some permanent redness, but I have to be pretty close to the mirror to notice this redness, a few meters away from the mirror I cannot really see any visible redness. Would you say that this is not too much infrastructure or is it too difficult to say?
The reason i used to flush every day was because i was constantly putting cold water on my face and therefore during the day my face would be REALLY cold to touch and i would then flush in the latter hours of the evening, so i don’t know whether my flushing was caused by having way to much excessive infrastructure or just by the by the fact i was keeping my face way too cold during the day and i this would result in an intense flush even if i had less infrastructure.

I believe if someone becomes almost persistently flushed, then this is too much skin infrastructure to go directly into flush reduction programs (it's just too hard).
In this situation IPL or laser treatment should deliver some much needed reduction in skin infrastructure and flushing.
After this, following flush reduction programs become more realistic.

Skin redness can change too rapidly to be a good indicator of Rosacea severity. Flushing gives a good indication of the level of skin infrastructure in flush zones.
You don't sound like you are persistently flushed. And 5 IPL treatments sound like you gave it a good go.

Keeping your face cold during the day could cause a flush at night even if you had slightly excessive skin infrastructure! (I'm not surprised your IPL benefits were short term).
You don't need extremely excessive skin infrastructure for this to happen.
You said previously that this no longer happens to you. So I would think you are well placed to continue with your flush reduction program and are on your way to slowly reversing rosacea on a daily basis, as opposed to the last few years where you were probably increasing your rosacea on a daily basis.

Sometimes if i get really hot, i find that my nose and face are really hot, but it is not very red/flushed only slightly pinkish. Do you know what is happening here? Like is more blood vessels and nerves being developed and thus is it progressing my rosacea ? or should i not be worried about this?

And lastly this is related to the question above, but i was wondering whether if you are constantly a bit hot and slightly red/pink in the face 24 hours a day, if this will help to reverse your rosaacea, compared to being cold during the day and then having an hour or two of intense red flushes later in the day??

The feeling of a flush relates directly to your skin nerves. The more they are activated, the more you FEEL the flush.
The redness relates more directly to blood vessels and vasodilation.
Although nerve and blood vessel activation often happen together and at similar intensity during a flush, it is not always the case.

Flushing is primarily responsible for progressing rosacea, but it's all relative to how much flushing & skin infrastructure you currently have!
MORE flushing = more skin infrastructure, LESS flushing = less skin infrastructure.
Sometimes it is difficult to avoid a flush. But as you gradually reduce your excessive skin infrastructure it does become easier.
Don't worry whether one flush has progressed your rosacea.
You have to think of reducing your overall flushing (duration and intensity). Say on a weekly basis or even a monthly basis.
You don't need to go from 10 flushes a week to 0, in order for you to reverse Rosacea.
But having said that, the more flushing (and inflammation) you can reduce the faster you will reverse rosacea.
Also, one intense flush is not equal to a minor low intensity flush.
If you could replace 10 major flushes a week with 10 minor flushes, you would be well on your way to reversing rosacea (less skin infrastructure in flush zones).
To answer the last part of your qn: YES. I believe that spacing out a flush (slightly hot, red) over a day would cause less angiogenesis than one big flush.
If this were not true, then I would still be red as a tomato.

Best regards,
Colin Dahl
Australian Sciences
http://www.ausci.com

Please note that this information is not intended to represent medical advice.

[AustralianSciences]

Dear hopeful,

When I attempt to wash my face, just with some soap and water, and after just somewhat of a gentle rub my cheeks become red (but no flush happens) and this redness takes some time to calm down. From a rosacea point of view , what is wrong with the skin? Does this make rosacea worse? What would you recommend when it comes to cleansing the skin?

There is nothing wrong with your skin!
Rosacea just makes your skin work a little differently, but it still functions normally.
There could be several factors involved.
Soap could be one factor (as Artist pointed out).
Even the fragrances used in soap can activate skin cells/sensory nerves.

Other factors could be the temperature of the water you use.
Too cold could cause immediate dilation of your capillaries and reddening of skin (due to relaxation of the muscle control of the capillaries).
Too hot could cause vasodilation of the capillaries.
Try to use lukewarm water.

Finally, the rubbing.
Generally rubbing normal skin causes inflammation and reddening of the skin.
Think of flush zones as being more easily activated (in almost every situation).
Therefore, slight rubbing of flush zones may equal moderate rubbing of normal skin.

Basically, clean/wash your skin with less rubbing and lukewarm water when needed. Use a small amount of non-fragrance soap or non-soap alternative like Artist recommended.
It's good to try and minimise skin activity as well as flushing where possible.
But from a 'will this significantly progress my rosacea' perspective - this is no big problem.
It is normal for someone with even slightly elevated skin infrastructure.

Best regards,
Colin Dahl
Australian Sciences
http://www.ausci.com

Please note that this information is not intended to represent medical advice.

[nerd23]

Hi guys,

i'm new here. just read this very interesting thread and am going to read the booklet on warm room flush tonight. that definitely affects me big time. when i'm cold i basically don't blush / flush at all but in warm indoor environments i'm in real trouble. last winter i had a social function on and i thought it would be a great idea to jump in the cold ocean first to get my body temp down. when i got in the warm car i was hit with a terrible flush. luckily i had some monoxidine with me which helped and the function was largely outdoors where it was cool.

Anyway the main reason for my post was to see if any of the products mentioned in the thread are for sale yet? I read several times that items would be available in the next few months etc but that was last year. Any update would be greatly appreciated.

cheers,
Nerd.

[Aurelia]

Hi Nerd and welcome to the group.

Sorry to hear about your flushing problem. I don't recall seeing anything about the products for a very long time. The web site still has little on it except the temperature modification leaflet, which many rosaceans have already reported being greatly helped by. (Well done, Colin.)

I see in the Resources section that they are recommending Milk Thistle / Silymarin supplementation, but not by any particular source.

http://www.ausci.com/resources6.htm

At the bottom of Resources page 8, it says: "Coming soon: Licorice Root". Well, lots of rosaceans have been using licorice for years, so Australian Sciences are obviously very conservative in their approach. There's nothing wrong with that, since most of us would rather read honest reports than hyped-up guff that sends hopes sky-high only to have them plummet.

Kind regards,

Aurelia

[waiting_to_die]

Wow - when i come in from the cold and enter warm room, i have been going straight back out - into the cold.
It seems a warm room really gets me heated up - cheeks go red.
So i try and stay out the way at work - outside that is.
I have a wonderfull wife who loves me, and 2 beautiful kids.
but when the Rosacea (red face ) kicks in i just feel like staying in the house.
At times i have booked nights off at work - it as been that bad > wishing i was dead.
Sounds crazy but its true, paranoid as hell.
by the way im new, hi all.

[Lisamouries]

Welcome waiting_to_die.
So sorry to hear how difficult you are finding to cope with Rosacea. Hopefully you will find this board informative and it will help you cope.
You might find a few threads in the Psychological Aspects section helpful. I've attached one started by Desertphoenix
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1144

I know it isn't easy but we are here to help. What are you taking at the moment? Any topicals or antibiotics?

We can't recommend enough how having a very gentle skin care routine can help a lot, it might be a case of trial and error but you will find eventually something that works for you. A lot of people here use Cetaphil, La Roche Posay or Avene products as cleansers instead of soap and then use non-fragranced moisturisers. There's a lot to choose from so give us a bit more info on your skin type and we'll get back to you.

Don't feel discouraged.
Kind regards.

[Aurelia]

Hi WTD and welcome to the group,

It is amazing how many people who were suffering from bad flushes have said that following the advice in the temperature control booklet has made a tremendous difference to their lives. I do hope you will think about giving it a try, then let us know how you get on.

Kind regards,

Aurelia